I'm Zach and I'm Darcy, did you know that pornography doesn't have to destroy you or your marriage where the parents of eight, active members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and we'd love to help people, just like you, we're here to share hope and healing as we take you, through our journey and the journeys of our amazing clients to Greater Joy and love Come Grow With US to a happier more meaningful life, Welcome to the self-mastery podcast. Hey everybody. Welcome to another beautiful Mastery Monday here on the self-mastery podcast. I'm your host Zach Stafford at Darcy's joining me today. Hi guys. Hey everybody this week. We are I liked this episode. I am thirsty. I've been kind of working on it today. It's, it's one of those episodes that I think Real actionable things that you can do to change your life. There’s this question that I get I get it a lot and it how can I get my wife to trust me again? So, there's no good answer. Except for this one, you cannot make your wife trust you again, you don't have control over your wife's trust in you. All you can do is be somebody that she can trust which means don't commit to things that you for sure can't follow through on be honest. And each of these revolves around an honestly presented position of yourself but probably not in ways that you ever thought of before. So, we're going to talk about three things that you can do. Number one is going to be let go of outcomes. Number two is to integrate your private self with your presented self. And we've talked about that a little bit on the podcast, but we're going to dive into that from honesty. And then number three is here. Will your partner say and make the argument for them about your behavior? We're going to dig into that here in a minute. Let's start with Lego the outcomes. This is very much about letting go of what it is that you're trying to get done letting go of him. So, for me was letting go and managing Darcy's feelings A lot of us have been working to manage our partner’s feelings. This is something that is really trackable and leads to fundamentally dishonest ways of interacting with your partner. I had a client who, when said, when I speak with my wife, I'm often looking to figure out a way to present my side in a way that is least likely to have her blow up, or get upset and that is managing her and not be 

You're not being honest, not being willing to let go of the outcome. And that example, what he's really doing there is in a way, he is trying to manage how she reacts to what he's saying. So that his life can also be easier in the short term if she reacts the way that is easiest for him than it in the short-term makes everybody's life easier but I think in the long run it creates not have the kind of intimacy that you are hoping to have and there's no trust there. And I think when we get our partner to behave, the way that we want them to behave for a short-term gain. The long-term problem is that we have these outcomes that we can't control, so letting go of that outcome in the short term is going to be, it's going to seem really costly but in the long run, it’s going to create assets that she can trust what it is that that you have to say. And I think another way that this shows up is saying yes to our partner when what we really mean is no, and vice versa, so, the second thing that you need to do and let go of the outcomes is saying no to your spouse, when that's your actual true. 

In addition, we have to be willing to tell our partner, no, rather than trying to find the answer that will keep the peace. Make her happy or keep you from getting in trouble. This goes along with the idea that you know, if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. So, if you're constantly, trying to placate your wife, that again is not going to create the results that you want in the long run, oftentimes, your partner can track when you're telling them what it is. That They want you to hear. And I think that you like it at the moment. Like if I say yes to you, he's giving me what I want but it's really a hollow Victory. There have been a number of times in our lives where I've said, yes, and it's really been a hollow victory for Darcy, and sex is one of those ways that that happens is, especially for men. It's a really Hollow Victory when our partner says, yes to us in the bedroom but it's not. She's not really there's no desire there. It's just servicing and I know for me, 

You know, if there's something that I really want and Zack just gives in to me, it doesn't feel the same to me. It typically doesn't feel good to me and in the long run, it affects how I feel about myself. Because if he's just saying yes, to me to pacify me, I can feel that, and then, in the long run, it just feels really crappy. But this isn't. Yeah. I mean because more it's like he's saying yes to me just because he doesn't want to deal with me, not genuinely saying yes, because he genuinely wants to say, yes. Exactly. And I love that. This is really a two-way street. And next week, we're actually going to talk about how Partners can or wives can trust again. But this particular, 

Or issue saying no when that's what you mean but also saying yes when that's what you mean is really important too often. I think we do. We try to conform to each other's needs and wants and beliefs and that sort of thing. Instead of being the true version of us that we want to be that that is us and, that's a really important thing to be able to say no, this is really what I feel, no is the answer for me, but that also means that you have to be willing to deal with the consequences of that upfront. I think another thing that goes along with this is being more circumspect about what you tell your partner, Don't, just say yes because you think it's what your partner wants and really be careful in agreeing to any sort of plans of actions, or because you feel like you're supposed to, or you're in that one down position of having messed up, especially around pornography. But in general, If, you're telling your partner, what they want to hear then you want to take a step back from that. If you think telling them what they want to hear is the right thing to do. Take a step back from that. And ask yourself what's my true position? What's the truth here for me? And how can I convey that in an honest and open way? I think it's also important to recognize that there is still compromise and marriage yet. This isn't like just a hard fast rule, like always saying no if you don't want something to do something necessarily because I do think there's room for compromising and give and take in a marriage. So that's not right. For instance, we have cats and I'm a heart, no one, but I haven't taken the cats you do to the pound or anything. So, there's this, it's an honor. The process of being open and willing to negotiate that. But when it comes to especially around pornography, when it comes to your partner saying, well, you need to do X, Y, and Z. And your only answer is, yeah, I'll just do whatever you tell me because otherwise, I'm going to be in trouble and you're in that one down position, and it feels like it's a, you know, you're being dictated to. That's a moment to take some courage on and say, I totally recognize what I've done here. Also, I don’t know that I can take on what you're asking me to take on. Maybe it's something I can do in the future, but right now I don't have that in me and I don't know what that looks like in every relationship, but I know that it's, you know, we gotta go to 12 step meetings or we gotta go to counseling, we got to go to, we got a reader’s scriptures every day at that, I have a client who his wife when he messes up his wife, like goes on this tear of how they're going to be more righteous and it's like 

Twice a day prayer. And we're going to talk over the phone about scriptures and read scriptures twice a day. We're going to be would you're all wonderful things but it's a real disruption in there in the actual flow of their life and it becomes this like I have to fix this right now instead of just taking a step back and saying yes, I totally see where you're trying to do that, I see what's the value there for doing that right now. This or this, or this doesn't really fit and being really clear and circumspection About what you agree to. Stay to your partner and then this I think is the number one thing within letting go of the outcomes is being willing to disappoint your partner. If it's the more honest position. If your partner asks you to never look at porn again say yes even if that's what you want to say. Might actually undermine the trust in the relationship that you're trying to create. I know at the beginning of our journey with pornography, I wanted sack to never look at porn again and So I after there was an episode, I would always try and get him to commit that he was never going to look at porn again. 

Yeah, and I didn't have those skills and there was no way for me to say yes, you know about that from an honest position, but you would you, I would say yes. Yeah, you would say yes. And then, you know, I find it again, and then it was like even more of a blow because it was like I was putting all my trust in him that he was going to do what he said. He. Yeah, so it's going to do you know? And we'll talk about this probably next week but if you're the wife asking, Things that you know, aren't possible are definitely going to undermine the trust in your relationship because you're asking for your partner to do something that they don't yet know how to do really when what we're doing when we let go of the outcome is that we're saying we're disagreeing and we're confronting the realities of our relationship but we're also offering an opportunity to hear us being real with our partner. And they're going to be presented with an opportunity to grow through that process. So, they, you know, it's a two-way street through this whole thing but letting go of the outcome is a really important component of this trust process that you're going to be working through. I know for me I would rather Zach tell me honestly what it is that he is doing or going to do than lie to me about it. 

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Keep me happy. Well, I think that you come to that position over time. Yeah, not that. That really, what I think in the beginning, every wife is like, I want you to be absolutely honest with me, and I want you to never make a mistake again, and I think that that is those two things while they're not mutually exclusive in all things that's really tough in the beginning, especially if you're working through this process in an open way, but I'm just referring to things outside of pornography. So, I like it. If you say that you're going to go and say fix the toilet in the trailer because it's leaking, and because that was one of the things that were on the list of things we need to do. And then I walk in, and you're, like, laying in the trailer, watching a movie, this didn't happen. I'm just hypothetically, Although, our toilet is leaking in our trailer, then I would be upset about that, whereas if he was like, I'm just going to go watch a movie. I would probably 

It's still kind of upset or annoyed if he was like, I'm just gonna lay here and watch a movie because, you know, we have this whole list of things to do but I would rather him in the long run, be honest up front then you know to catch him in a lie later. So, I think this is something that we often find ourselves hiding. Men who are struggling with pornography. I find it hiding is a pretty normal thing. And what I mean by hiding is, we are not integrated into our private self with our present itself with the person that we share with our partner. And that's actually the number to integrate your private self with your present itself. And really what this is, is say what you're doing and do what you say. So, for instance, if you know your work and you say you're leaving it to work at 5:00, then you have to 

That this is, this is like doing what you say from the previous component. But it's really, I want to emphasize the cost here. You have to be willing to pay the cost of whatever it is that you say you're going to do and you know you can often rationalize that but whatever it is that you tell your partner, you're going to do that's what you end up doing and I think the other component of this is emotional your presents itself or your private self the One that you are when you're alone with yourself, you have to be willing to open up and share that person with your partner. And emotionally men are not super good at it. We're really not going to die, to be honest. It's not been something that we've been taught and it's not been something that we've practiced. So there is a lot of practice that goes into, you know, being willing to say, to your partner, this is how I've been feeling today and you don't have to put it on them and say, so one of the, one of the exercises that we do in the membership, 

This thing where you go, when you tell your partner, how you felt all day Take 5 minutes into it. So you just say, this isn't this is what I've been feeling today, how I've been emotional, how it physically, what I accomplished just a download of how I felt and in doing that. What you're doing is you're saying this is the person I am when I'm alone with me and I want to share that with you now, you don't do that with everybody. You don't do that with your boss. You don't do that with maybe church people, but you definitely 

If you want to create trust within your relationship, being able to say hunting, this is how I felt today. And this is what's real for me when I'm alone with myself. That is a huge component of integrating your private self with the person that you present to your partner. I remember when you worked at an office and you would call me and you would say this is how I'm feeling right now, I'm really feeling like I want to look at pornography right now. And on my side, I appreciated that honesty, and his being truthful was great, but then I still had to manage myself on my side because obviously that love hearing that he wants to look at porn, right? So, it's like that. Yeah. 

The difference of him still presenting what's true for him and what's going on for him to me, but then me having to deal with that myself and I think a lot of spouses will say, well that's not fair. It's not fair that I should have to deal with his emotional state or his desire to do this thing and I totally understand that. I, I think if you are presenting this to your partner, it's not about putting a burden on them. It's not about saying to them. Hey, I need you to help me. 

This. It's not about that. Being your accountability perspective. It's only about telling them what's actually real. That's all it is because if every time you did that, they came in and they said well, I have to rescue my partner that would be unfair. Well in those times it wasn't like you asked me to solve it. It was just you expressing. What is going on for you? And on my side, I didn't feel like oh I got to step in, I got to fix this. I got to drive to his office and be there too. Protect him. And all of that. Well, this was later on in our journey. Yeah, I think early on, I wouldn't have had the courage to say that to you, and I probably couldn't. I am certain, I couldn't handle it, right? Zach. So one other component of being the integrating the person that you are when you're alone with yourself, so your personal self, you're inside self with your outside self. 

The person that you present to your partner is willing to re-evaluate re-navigate and restate your position this can be tough, you know, we have we pay attention to a lot of what I am, Jennifer Finlayson, 5 talks about. And often times we see couples who are re-evaluating and renegotiating their faith journey and in that. In this process, this process of what's really going on inside of me. Many times, you might find that you're going to renegotiate re-evaluate restate, your positions differently. Now whether it's about your faith or whether it's about just what you want in your life. You might be coming to your partner and saying, I'd like to be a little bit more excited in bed. Not because of porn, but just because I want to be closer to you. I want to have, you know, whatever it is. That looks like you are sure to experience new shared experiences. That's a great word for it. You're amazing. And all of that. 

Is really just an opportunity to say. I have grown, I am different and I am learning and I'm becoming a person that I really like. And I'm willing to share that with you. That renegotiation that rings at re-navigation, that reads State restatement of your position. That is, I am I'm different than I was when we got married and I want you to know who that person really is, what's that? Maybe it's Esther Perel, I don't remember who yes Esther Perel says you're going to be married. Three times on average in your life and it might all be to the same person. And that's something you've got to be willing to be open to. All right. The last one here is what your partner is saying and make the argument for them about your behavior. If you would like to gain the trust of your partner, I think a lot of us have through the process of our Brawn RV struggle, lost a great deal of trust. 

This particular one is a really important component and it's about the way that you argue, it's about the way that you are willing to see your own behavior. This isn't imparted to the process of self-confrontation and creating those winning strategies in your arguments. You can listen to an entire episode on self-confrontation. It's episode number 127 but it really sounds like hearing what your partner's saying, and understanding their perspective on how you are showing up. And I know for me, I still have a lot of work to do in this particular Arena, partly, because whenever Darcy Briggs me something, I automatically want to defend my position. Not because she's necessarily attacking it but because I don't like feeling like I'm wrong. I like being, right? And being able to be able and willing to see your Behavior objectively and without the need to defend it, that's a really important component. But also, being willing to hear what the other person is saying, openly and restating their position being, you know, saying something like. Okay so this is what I think I'm hearing you say and this is what I think you're trying to get at is I think an essential 

Value when it comes to gaining trust because even if you don't agree with that person's position, Being, able to restate it, articulately and Not from a position of creating a sort of straw man or breaking it down or beating it up. We'll give them the sense that at the very least you've heard every single person wants to be heard and so when your partner is willing to hear what you have to say, it gives you a sense that you can trust them that even if the problem is not going to be self, right? Then and there, they're at least listening and trying to understand what it is that you are. 

I tried to tell them, absolutely. I love this idea. I love this question from people. I think this is a really great, you know, valuable concept of just being able to like I said, let go of the outcomes integrate your private self with your presented self and hear what your partner is saying, and making that argument for them, from your position about what's going on. I think that really opens up a lot of space for a partner. Not just be able to trust you, but be able to come to a greater intimacy with you. You know, a lot of the differentiation work that we talk about differentiation being a solid person and choosing closeness with your partner. That is a lot of what you're doing here. You're saying I'm going to become more solid; I'm going to become a better person and 

As a result, I'm going to choose closeness with my partner and they can come and choose closeness with me if that's what they want to do as well. So, this is fantastic and I know for me it was extremely important on this journey that Zach did what he said. He was going to do, even if it had nothing to do with pornography, especially if it had nothing to do with pornography, right? It was that I could trust, that his word means something. 

To disappoint you because I had to be willing to say what was actually, what I actually thought was going to happen instead of trying to find what is it that she wants. Are you just telling her that and nobody? I don't think anybody wants that. Like, you definitely didn't want me to be, that person. So, I really appreciate you coming on this week. Darcy, and everyone next week, we're going to talk about how you can trust again. And that's I think a really, I think that's going to be good at all. So, share this with your friends. Share it out. You know, let people know that this is what we're talking about. Because I think it's, I think it's a really important topic, not just for people who are struggling with pornography, but really anything in your life, where you're struggling to create the relationship that you want. This is a really good place to start. All right, thanks for listening. Have a great week and we will talk to you next week. Bye. Thanks for listening to the self-mastery podcast every day Darcy and I work with amazing men and women to remove pornography from theirs. 

In relationships, if you're ready to take the next step in your journey, let us help you sign up for a consult. At Zach's, packard.com slash work with me and you can set up some time for you or your spouse to meet with me or with Darcy and we can help you get started on your self-mastery journey.

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